Discussion Weekend
Sometimes, on Stuff Christians Like, someone takes something the wrong way. Well, the other day, Jon Acuff posted about Stealing from a Church. A much racier title than the article, but it did bring up some interesting discussion points that I thought we could address for my first attempt at a “Discussion Weekend”. Basically, I’m going to let the discussion take its toll on our webserver and give this commenting system a run for its money.
The question is:
Is it okay for people to go to another church specifically for certain programs but never join the church? How does it make the church feel? Do you think it’s a pro or a con? What are your thoughts?
Absolutely.
We're one big, happy family… aren't we?
Are we not glad when other brothers and sisters in Christ come to join us for a day or two?
Ah yes, but what about those small churches where everyone knows about their visitors and knows when they don't come back? What about the morale of the church staff?
Ooh! I'll play! What if my church doesn't offer a basketball league/ VBS / Awana / fillintheblank? Or as in my case another church offers it closer to home. (Our church is 25 min away in suburbia.) We've participated in local events to get connected with our rural community. We do tend to get asked if we have a church home, and we answer honestly. If they persist, we sometimes have to play the elder card. (Charlie's an elder at our church.) Most churches seem to draw the line at elder-stealing.
Elder-stealing does seem above and beyond. But, does your church even NEED to offer those things? Shouldn't parents be teaching their kids to grow up into good God-fearing adults? And shouldn't schools be supplying the extracurricular activities like basketball?
Growl, people need to stop pestering people in church and find the lost. They are the one's Jesus went after, it was the white washed tombs called Pharisees that kept trying to sway followers from the Sadducees and visa versa.
Our home church is a few blocks away in our dinky little town & we've been members there for 25 years. In the past few years we've started attending another church down the road on Saturday evenings, while still attending our home church on Sundays We love the rockin' band, big auditorium, animated pastor in jeans who delivers a great sermon. We serve at both places. We see a lot of the same people at both places. There are a lot more opportunities to serve at the larger church. I like to think we are ALL the church. But I do feel uneasy because our home church pastor has seemed a little miffed and suspicious (or maybe I'm paranoid).
I have urges to go to other churches sometimes to enjoy just something different. I've grown up in the church that I currently go to, and everyone knows me. My wife and I have recently started working in the nursery during the first service which we used to attend, and now people never see us. When we see people, some of them think we've just stopped coming!
Your home church pastor probably doesn't understand what you see in the others. It seems like having a church family is like a relationship, and sometimes, there can be jealousy, I think.
I think you need to talk to your pastor. He probably feels threatened and is waiting for you to stop coming by on some Sunday.
He is really sort of avoiding us in a passive/aggressive way, but I've told him we're not leaving. This is a small town and word travels fast. It's funny, because the pastor at the other church always greets us enthusiastically, and one day I said "I'll bet you're wondering if we're going to be lurkers forever" and he said "Lurk as long as you want – we love lurkers and so does God." Our home pastor is on the cusp of retirement and has visibly lost his passion for his life's work. I did visit with him one day at length about his health and well-being (he's also a former patient of mine) and I'm sure there's a direct connection to that and his demeanor. We won't leave before he does, because he would be very offended and I don't want him to take it personally. And I do love that church, but the recent decision by the ELCA has divided it and caused a lot of tension in the congregation. I can overlook that, until someone tries to start an argument after we have had a beautiful worship time. Church is not the place for that. "Accept all comers." I agree with katdish – "we are all part of the Church" – no matter where we show up on Sunday morning.
Well, since I'm involved with a church plant, we don't have any programs to speak of. My kids attended Awanas and VBS at our old church until recently. We think it's really important to stress to our kids that church is not about what we can get from them (programs, basketball, etc.) but what we can give to the church – how we can live in community with each other. So the Childrens director has set up get togethers for the kids on a regular basis. Nothing fancy, just hanging out, playing games and a bit of bible study.
I think it's a great idea for churches to partner with other churches to do community outreach programs. We are all part of the Church (big C), right?
Oh, you church-plants, and your crazy non-youth oriented-ness (enough hyphenated words?). I have a friend who began going to a church-plant who didn't necessarily WANT something for his children. Said it was his role as the parent to shepherd his children.
We are all a part of the Church, but I wonder if the hands are jealous of the feet sometimes. In the past our church did a community outreach day, and the idea was to "help the community", but it was also more to get people information about our church. I felt like it was kind of deceitful (might be too strong, but whatever, this is Discusses Ahoy!) of my church to tout something as a day to do random acts of kindness in the community, but hand out cards about our church. Did Jesus recommend which temple the poor should go to?
"Oh, hey, yeah, I just healed your blindness out of the kindness of my heart… oh, and by the way, I go to that temple down the road, if you want to check it out."
Yeah, I get that. I really do. We do service projects, but we don't wear fancy matching t-shirts and pass out cards. If someone asks about our church we will tell them, but we don't serve the world to bring people to our church, we do it because that's what we're supposed to do.
Maybe churches should plan activities for the community without assuming that everyone who comes is looking for a new church home.
Ooh! But that would go against everything the church is about right now, right? It's all about getting people in the doors, because it's inside the church doors that they'll get saved. Isn't that how it's supposed to work?
Imagine that? I hate that too many churches can't seem to get a few simple things through their heads.
Church shuffle does not mean church growth. Too many events we plan in churches 2day are about attracting people already attending church. I'm ok with that but y get offended when someone comes to your revival then goes back to their home church? What I'm not ok with is training people to invite others to church without making it clear they should invite people who are not attending church. "Hey you should come try our church out it is growing really fast." Of course it is, because you are inviting people from other churches so you don't have to disciple anyone.
Your church isn't the only church in town. Now this seems obvious but the way churches work together you would think this is some hidden fact. There is one body and we can't be cutting off different churches because we don't see them.
Jesus called us to serve the least. This is amazing because way too many churches are interested in filling their pews with the affluent. I think churches need to spend more time on the streets than in posh places having events for the well off. Sure we all have our annual or even semi annual things for the needy but what about the time in between? Are the poor really welcome in our church? Not most of the ones I've seen.
I could go on and on, but seriously it is true, we need to reach out to out community without an agenda. Then maybe the community will be interested in what we are saying.
How does tithing fit into all of this? (via my wife @marysmusings)
When my mom was depressed, and didin't "feel the Christmas spirit", I took her to various Church Christmas programs in our area. I called first and explained that I'm not a member, neither is mom, and that we both are happy in our present Church, but wish to attend. People couldn't have been more gracious. One particular program was a tremendous amount of help. It was a one woman performance. It really emphasized a woman's personal struggle with depression during Christmas, and that we can find joy in our Saviour and still not want hollies, candy canes, and bows all around. Mom and I were both very moved. It was truly a Godsend.
And btw, the next year, mom was fine.
Anyhow, I think as long as we are honest and say "Hey, may I come? I have no intention of switching Churches, but this particular thing you are doing is something I really want to be a part of…"